Episode 28 - Talking Frankly to Students about AI
00:00:00 Jon Bergmann: Welcome to the third episode of my Rebooted Podcast, where we seek to reach every student. This is John Bergman, and I'm a career teacher, author of twelve books, A couple being best sellers. if you've listened to the previous podcasts, I've been thinking a lot about AI and trying out new ways to integrate AI in my classroom for this past year. My principal came to me at the end of last year and said, John, I want you to be the AI guy at my school and I want you to help out our teachers think about AI. Uh, you know, many leaders in the ed tech community, I guess I'm one of them, Um, are AI enthusiasts seeing this as like the next gateway to solve some of the most vexing problems in education. You know, as I've read and thought, excuse me, Many leaders in the edtech community are AI enthusiasts. I think they see it as the next gateway to solve all of the most vexing problems education. As I've read and thought and I've experimented with AI, I'm just not as enthusiastic. Enthusiastic about it as I was at first. You know, what really happened is I started out skeptical. And then once I started researching it, I got excited. And then I started using AI tutors in my high school science classrooms. And then I saw some things my students were doing with the AI and then I got concerned. And then that led me back to go and read and research. Some more, and now I have squarely fallen into the, let's call it the AI cautionary camp. So this led me to write an article entitled, AI will stupefy our students, make them dumber, yeah, yeah, unless we do these six things. You can read about that, look at the show notes, and I'll link to the article. Uh, and you also the last two podcasts I talked about kind of the essence of that article and some of my concerns so that as we talk today about my students. And their response to my frank conversation with them, you may want to go back and listen to those episodes and or read the article. You see, I, I, I'm concerned and I'm worried, right? My concern here's, here's what I wanted to do. You see my students, I want my students to thrive. You know, we want to reach every student. I want to reach my students and I want them to become thriving humans. You see, after reading that article, I got increasingly concerned about my own students and my desire for them was to thrive in the world of AI. So I set out to have a frank conversation with them. So this past week, I took a day to talk plainly with my students about AI and encourage them to think deeply about AI and their own individual future.
00:02:46 Jon Bergmann: So to understand the conversation that I had, I want you to just like a crazy quick summary of the article. The article says that if we aren't careful, AI will stupefy our students, make them dumber, downgrading of human intelligence, not my quote, somebody else. And, uh, there is studies that show there's an, if somebody has an over-reliance on AI, it will have a negative impact, particularly on critical thinking. So that's research. That's not me talking. Um, although I've seen it in my own classrooms. So that was kind of the gist of that article. Again, listen to the last two podcasts and you'll understand. And so now let's talk about the conversation I had with my students. So let me set the scene. The first thing I had to do, frankly, was read the article. I said, take ten minutes, pull out your laptops. One-to-one device here. And I had them read the article. Um, once they read it, some were like, whoa, wait, hey, Mr. Bergman, you're the author of this. Um, by the way, that was interesting as they made that, uh, observation. I mean, many of them know that I'm an author, but when they were reading an article that I wrote, um, what I really saw is that they said, hey, this is more Geared to us because you're our teacher and that, that, You know, I've always said, as I've spoken around the world, is that relationships matter in connecting with students. And when they say, hey, this is something that my teacher wrote, then they read it more carefully. I was really impressed. Yeah. And then once they had read the article, what I had, what I did is I chose a student to lead the conversation. You see, I didn't want to be the one leading the conversation. I wanted to hear my students' thoughts. I wanted them to be frank and honest. About what they saw in the article and also about their own reflection. And as they discussed, here's the things that popped out. They, number one, they admitted that they too often over rely on AI. You see, one thing I told them is that as they read the article, I said, I want you to see yourself in the article because I was writing about them. You know, I didn't mention student names or whatever, but they were embedded in that article because a lot of my thinking about AI is based in like the reality of me being a teacher every day with students like you probably are and. They said, hey, yeah, we do over rely on AI. And they saw that AI could really have a negative impact upon their actual learning brain development. I inserted a little comment and I gave them a brief lesson. On how the brain learns and how neurons and myelin sheaths If you want to learn more about that, uh, I don't know, email me if I want to talk about that for a podcast someday. I used to teach a lot of, uh, teachers about how brain, how the brain literally grows the physical nature of learning that happens, what happens inside of your brain. And I gave them a quick lesson on that and they didn't want their brain to get shortchanged. they were especially, motivated by the metaphor. In the article where I quote Ted Chiang where he said using chat GPT to complete assignments is like bringing a forklift to the weight room. You will never improve your cognitive fitness that way. That, that quote really resonated with my students. They said, wow, I know that if I want to, you know, become a good athlete or whatever, I've got to actually do the work in the weight room. I can't let the forklift do the work for me. Uh, yeah, other things that they were concerned about, uh, that came up in the conversation is, you know, I'm, I'm teaching juniors and seniors in high schools. They're seventeen and eighteen maybe sixteen years old. And they were very concerned about, uh, what college major they should pursue because, uh, AI is going to replace jobs that they may get a major for. And so we had a. A good conversation about that. That's super important, right? If accounting jobs are going to be replaced, then maybe you shouldn't choose to be an accountant. And that, you know, lots of things to think about in this age of AI. Ultimately, I felt they got the message. I, I then really just shared my heart with them. I want them to become, like I said earlier, a thriving human. So I'm telling that to the students. I don't want them to over rely on AI and I want them to develop their own neural networks. You see, our school is a leadership school. It's one of the it's touted as a leadership school. I may not have this completely true, but I believe we are one of, if not the only school with a presidential seal, George W. Bush, George and Barbara Bush. George Herbert Walker books. Yeah. HW Bush. They, they, uh, have, uh, their name on, uh, we have the George and Barbara Bush Leadership Institute and our school is known for its leadership. And I said, if you want to become a leader, Then you can't be the one who takes the easy road out. The temptation to use AI in inappropriate ways is just too big. And that was the beginning of the conversation. There's actually three parts. So the second thing I did is I pulled up an AI talking app. I used sesame.com. Uh, I was reading one of the newsletters I get about AI recently. And I said, this guy said he went down a rabbit hole with this AI and I thought, well, let me go. And I went down that rabbit hole and it's just an out loud conversation talking with an AI agent. And I just said, Hey, everybody quiet. I'm going to talk to the computer. And I opened it up. I had a choice between a male or a female voice. And I began a conversation. I had been talking, or I recently had read a book about President and General Ulysses S. Grant, his biography, big long book. And I thought, let's just have a conversation about that. I just talked to the AI agent and the conversation just kept going and going and the knowledge that they had was amazing. But the reaction of the students was kind of awe and also creepiness. It is weird and creepy to talk to an AI agent that knows so much. And the, the tone was very conversational. in the last class, cause I kept using the same AI agent. Some of my, my students thought that the AI was like flirting with me. I don't know. It was weird. It was just, it, it was. On next level creepy. Uh, and so the reaction of the students was kind of, this is, this is creepy. And I made the mistake and I'm trying to really watch myself is that, you know, they had a male voice or a female voice. I used both in different classes and uh, I would call it Uh, he or she, and I said, I think what, here's my thoughts, guys. As, as you're talking about AI agents, I really, really, really encourage you to not use pronouns. Uh, if not, the pronoun is, it's it. It's not. A living thing. Uh, I know there's a lot of people who want to anthropomorphize AI and I just don't think that's a good idea. Uh, it's an it. We, I value human relationships so much more and I think we need to be very, very careful with that. And then lastly, so part three, if you will, of the conversation is I actually read them. I had them read an article about an AI companion app. And these are apps that, for example, will have AI boyfriends and AI girlfriends or AI, and they become your quote unquote friend. And the article I had them read was from like the Australian, uh, Society for the Safety on the Internet or something written to parents. And, uh, by the way, I was really looking, I began to investigate these a while back and I got very, very concerned about these apps and they They really, really bother me. And I'm not going to go into great details on this podcast about that. I really am going to, uh, that's going to be the topic of the next podcast, these AI companion apps. Suffice it to say, I think that these are. Extremely dangerous for students and on so many levels. And again, I won't, I won't talk about it too much in detail now, but I really, really encourage my students to not get involved in these apps. I, I, I feel like I can just paint the picture. There's already some stats on these things that show how bad they are, uh, for people. I, I value human relationships. I said that a bit earlier. And, uh, having a relationship with a AI agent is, uh, is not going to be good for the social development of, of humans. And so, Yeah, make sure you have that conversation with your students. So on that positive note, um, what are my takeaways with my time with my students? Number one, actually, I would encourage you, if you're a classroom teacher, you're a principal or whatever, to have frank conversation with your students about AI. It is well worth the time. You know, as I even talk about this, I'm thinking about writing an article that is directly written to students. You see, the one I wrote was Was to teachers, to educators. And, uh, it probably went better in my class cause I'm the author and they're my kids. Right. So, uh, Once I've written this, I'll write this. I will send this out. Subscribe to my newsletter and you'll get an email or something once that's been written. That might be a good conversation starter for your students about what AI, um, just the concerns of AI that I have for students. Again, I want you to hear me very carefully. I'm not anti-AI. I see AI as something that's here to stay. The worst AI our students will ever have is the AI that's there right now. And I know that you care for your students like I do mine. So I really, really encourage you to take a cautionary approach to AI. My biggest concern with AI from a long-time teacher, me, is that we will see a bifurcation of our society. Those who take the hard road of learning and do the mental work will become the leaders of the world. And those who go the easy way will not lead. This means there will be winners and losers. I know that's been true really for a long time. To some extent, there's always been those who take the hard road becomes leaders of the world. But I think we're in a different place with AI. I think AI because of its explosion and just the exponential way that it's growing. Is going to create a greater bifurcation, and I think it's going to create, here's John Bergman's prediction, is it's going to create and accelerate a deeper divide in our society. And so that's where I really think it's headed. Uh, but again, we, we're not going to be able to, you know, put the cat back in the. I don't know, whatever the metaphor is back and back in the bag or whatever. We're not going to be able to do that. So what are we going to do is we're going to have to help our students. All I can do is, you know, the starfish, I can help the one starfish. You heard the metaphor. You know, somebody's throwing back the starfish into the ocean and says, well, it made a difference with that student or that starfish. Well, I want to make a difference with that student. That student is going to walk into my room here in twenty minutes. So, hey, thanks. Thanks for hanging out and listening to this and the work that you do with your students every day. I know that your goal like mine is to reach every student. As we close, go out there and reach your students today. Hey, follow me on Twitter, um, uh, at John Bergman, or actually X, right? John, by the way, is J-O-N, so no H, and Bergman, B-E-R-G-M-A-N-N, has two N's. You can also go to johnbergman.com. And again, I encourage you to sign up for my free newsletter. Uh,
00:14:05 Jon Bergmann: you can also take flipped and mastery learning courses at the website. I've got some, uh, courses that might be useful for you and you can find this podcast at reach every student.com. John Bergman out.
